The "I'm totally F-ing up grow thread."

[twobitbob]

So I'm a little different than many on these forums. My goal is NOT to get a ton of tasty buds to smoke,

My problem with soil is that it is NOT consistent. I dont like unknowns and cant afford to pay for a proper soil test every time I buy a bag of soil. I also HATE the risk of any infestations hiding in the soil. I believe Coco is less lightly to hold

Most people only test their mixes if they are
Mixing it for living soil approach
I certainly wouldn’t buy bagged soil then test it
I think H.A.F. Mentioned he used coast of Maine I looked into them it looks like some good bagged soil
Soil king I’ve been told both good and bad
Build a soil and kiss seem to be what most buy premixed
If you mixed a a big batch and added amendments and extra compost
The tests really don’t cost that much I think I paid 75 dollars and you can talk to a agronomist
If you are into mixing check out Albrechts
Ideal soil https://pdfcoffee.com/the-ideal-soil-pdf-pdf-free.html
It’s a dive into mineral balancing soil
If you ever decide to test your soil
This is how they do it Albrechts methods

 

[twobitbob]

If you already have all the fox farm stuff and coco why not try using them?
I’ve had some good buds back in the fox farm days from people using the cha Ching open sesame…. Im sure there is a lot of info on using those products they’ve been around for a long time now
Although i’m not sure what salts are in them anymore or if they tell you for sure on the label?
Another cheap way to try nectar
They have a sample pack 6 bottles with a schedule you only pay the shipping
It’s all the way at the bottom of their website a link says request sample
The Herculean harvest(liquid bone meal)
Will run out so that’s how they get ya to buy more of their stuff

 

[H.A.F.]

Another cheap way to try nectar

NO!!! This is a calcium based product - I'm sure it works great but you will learn nothing about any other kind of nutrition. It's a cult, and there is no other bottle-type grow that is even similar.

All the problems listed for Fox Farms or any other questionable bagged medium are temporary. Nature is built on base ingredients. As long as FF still has in it what it says the things like it having trash in it can get sifted out - or you already did if yo found trash. Bad pH or pre-added nutes too light or too hot compared to what you expected is done in a month or two. Gnats in coco and soil (yes, you can get gnats in nice moist-all-the-time coco) should be gone after a grow.

So after one grow soil is better than it was - especially if you add biologicals.

Coco is also questionable at the start unless you pay extra for the pre-washed and buffered canna-coco. Then after one grow it needs flushed or tossed because it could have leftover flower nutes in it and you don't want to start vegging the next one with a questionable start point. If I am doing bottle-fed I am doing it in soil. There are videos you can watch about re-setting your coco.

That was part one - part 2 is the synopsis LOL (short)

 

[H.A.F.]

So a newb is anyone that ain't got it working pretty well - time is not an issue. You can get a lifelong gardener that slides right into it after they learn the main tricks. Or guys fighting it for years.

You have bottled nutes - use them while you decide what's next.

I personally would rather dig up dirt in the park and start getting it right than use coco - but that's me. Something to consider is that worms love coco. I do use coco mixed with stuff for the worm bedding and they chow down on it. If you get peat-based soil you only have to write off the coco as a medium, but it will eventually add bulk to your soil. The nutes that work in hydro work in soil.

 

[twobitbob]

Just thought I’d throw it out there people use it with coco it’s a pretty good deal as far as nutrients go it’s your choice
I know I regretted starting seeds in coco perlite mix they sprouted well but need fed
And it makes you dependent on one of the bottled nutrients or salts
I’m not really advocating bottled stuff
But I also think there is a learning experience to be had either way
Some of those NPK videos are pretty interesting

 

[bobross]

Most people only test their mixes if they are
Mixing it for living soil approach
I certainly wouldn’t buy bagged soil then test it
I think H.A.F. Mentioned he used coast of Maine I looked into them it looks like some good bagged soil
Soil king I’ve been told both good and bad
Build a soil and kiss seem to be what most buy premixed
If you mixed a a big batch and added amendments and extra compost
The tests really don’t cost that much I think I paid 75 dollars and you can talk to a agronomist
If you are into mixing check out Albrechts
Ideal soil https://pdfcoffee.com/the-ideal-soil-pdf-pdf-free.html
It’s a dive into mineral balancing soil
If you ever decide to test your soil
This is how they do it Albrechts methods

Thanks for the links, great information.

I've considered Coast of Maine Platinum as well as a few others (running away from fox farm soil)... Although I say a lot of bad things about Fox Farm I would like to mention I have had pretty good luck using Happy Frog. BTI takes care of the fungus gnats--apparently also common with Coast of Maine soils... So I'm not too worried about gnats. There is another soil company called Great lakes soil that a fellow grower swears by. No nutes needed with that stuff he says, you just need to use a lot of soil....

(if you had good luck with Fox Farm why not keep using it? ----Answering before you ask, I've had great luck EARLY with Fox Farm, but something starts to go bad around flower time. Soil compaction and PH drops that are difficult to fix. Someone told me it was the spaghum moss becoming acidic as it breaks down...(around month 3)... Thats just my theory though, it could very well be user error as well.

Great lakes soil
https://detroitnutrientcompany.com/

I'm outside growing Parsley, Cilantro, Basil and more fresh herbs using my compost and used fox farm soil.. I have rabbit poop, banana peels, egg shells, coffee grounds etc all mixed into the soil now. So, I do have "one toe in the water" as far as organic growing goes. No way that outside soil comes into my house though ! I'll stick with sterile Coco and liquid nutes for now, I'm scared to death of pests...they are so hard to see !

 

[bobross]

This one might get chopped tomorrow, I'll send a pic before I pull the plug. I gave her a small dose of MagPro last night in the 4th week of veg and she is stinking up my basement ! I'm not sure why mag pro makes everything so smelly, but normally this only happens in flower....

Critical Mistake ( Fuck up) on my part thinking I could get away with White Widow as a low odor plant. If this thing stinks now, there is no way I'll get her to flower! Back to Northern Lights and Durban Poison I'm afraid. (Maybe Master Kush next go).

 

[twobitbob]

Thanks for the links, great information.

I've considered Coast of Maine Platinum as well as a few others (running away from fox farm soil)... Although I say a lot of bad things about Fox Farm I would like to mention I have had pretty good luck using Happy Frog. BTI takes care of the fungus gnats--apparently also common with Coast of Maine soils... So I'm not too worried about gnats. There is another soil company called Great lakes soil that a fellow grower swears by. No nutes needed with that stuff he says, you just need to use a lot of soil....

(if you had good luck with Fox Farm why not keep using it? ----Answering before you ask, I've had great luck EARLY with Fox Farm, but something starts to go bad around flower time. Soil compaction and PH drops that are difficult to fix. Someone told me it was the spaghum moss becoming acidic as it breaks down...(around month 3)... Thats just my theory though, it could very well be user error as well.

Great lakes soil
https://detroitnutrientcompany.com/

The peat moss is acidic and will acidify
This is why people amend with lots of calcium and rock dusts and pumice for compaction
Gypsum calcium sulfate
Oyster shell calcium carbonate
I use egg shells too blended up
A lot of people are using worm bins to feed the minerals and rock dusts I believe @H.A.F.
Mentioned that as well
Dolomite lime used to be recommended much more for Ph buffer but as time has passed it’s found out that it has a little too high a ratio of magnesium and isn’t used as much now
8:1 calcium magnesium I believe
Albrechts balancing explains cations anions
The percentages in the soil
it takes some reading but it does help the understanding of how elements work together
It’s kind of like a battery
So it is somewhat parallel to mixing nutrient solution and measuring EC
Electric current from the salt based solution
The soil tests test for soluble salts as well
Hope that makes sense I’m still learning from it and will probably use it for the rest of my life
So many studies on microbes these days too

 

[bobross]

The peat moss is acidic and will acidify
This is why people amend with lots of calcium and rock dusts and pumice for compaction
Gypsum calcium sulfate
Oyster shell calcium carbonate
I use egg shells too blended up
A lot of people are using worm bins to feed the minerals and rock dusts I believe @H.A.F.
Mentioned that as well
Dolomite lime used to be recommended much more for Ph buffer but as time has passed it’s found out that it has a little too high a ratio of magnesium and isn’t used as much now
8:1 calcium magnesium I believe
Albrechts balancing explains cations anions
The percentages in the soil
it takes some reading but it does help the understanding of how elements work together
It’s kind of like a battery
So it is somewhat parallel to mixing nutrient solution and measuring EC
Electric current from the salt based solution
The soil tests test for soluble salts as well
Hope that makes sense I’m still learning from it and will probably use it for the rest of my life
So many studies on microbes these days too

Yes ! I purchased Dolomite lime due to the fact that many use it in their soil recipes. Reading into it later, I decided against using it due to the Calcium/Mag ratio. I sprinkle a little into my soil but use it very sparingly. I use egg shells too, but have read that unless you use vineger they take a long time to break down in the soil.

So, while I got you... Is there any chance you can provide a list of must have ingredients a gardener should have on hand? Epson Salt? Gypsum Calcium Sulfate? EC meter? PH Meter I use PH drops to keep it simple but like everything in this hobby they can be tricky if the water is colored.

Here is what I'm using now---(trying to keep it simple)

Mainly used -fed heavily, 1/2 - full dosege per Dynagrow feedchart

Dyna Grow Foliage Pro-

Used with caution and fed lightly
Dyna Grow MagPro-
Dyna Grow Bloom
Dyna Grow Protekt- Used mainly when I need to raise PH of my feed solution. (not so common, my nutes get the PH to where it should be without Protekt.)

My Future shopping list:

Recharge? (heard good things)
Epsom Salt (Sonething every grower should have on hand?)
Hydroguard- (heard good things- supposedly good with hydroponics/ soil-less.?


And lastly-- Fox Farm Bushdoctor CalMag 1-0-0, or Sensi + Calmag 4-0-0. (stopped using Sensi cal mag due to high N)

Im using RO Water and like to get a little Cal Mag into my plain waterings even though Dynagrow says Calmag isnt needed. Very lightly used, but I may increase if I see any calmag deficiencies.

I also purchased Mycos and Great white but may be over applying these. I noticed a lot of leaf wrinkle that I've never seen until I started using them.

 

[H.A.F.]

A lot of people are using worm bins to feed the minerals and rock dusts I believe @H.A.F.
Mentioned that as well

Yes - in general you need some form of rock dust for a worm bin. Since it it for weed I add the good minerals into the worm bedding. If the stuff from Down to Earth isn't in dust form I have an old coffee grinder that will make some

 

[H.A.F.]

My Future shopping list:

Recharge? (heard good things)

Like with anything, once it's established there will be copycats - in fact, Recharge is a copycat that got famous I think. I have no issue with it but I have one more dose and the next product is called TPS Billions. Half the price and it looks like the main difference is that it has a cane-sucar carrier instead of molasses. And if the plants want molasses I can add that cheap too.

And you are right about the eggshells, I do both. I have the WCA (if you want to look up how to make it) that is just an eggshell and vinegar solution with the eggshells toasted to get the inner skins off. If you put the eggshell in a blender it works for both. You can rinse a lot of the skin away since it floats. The fine eggshell toasts in no time with less stink, and if you are just tossing it into the worm bin it's like adding any other mineral.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

And if the plants want molasses I can add that cheap too.

From what I understand, the molasses is there for the microbial life more than it is there for the plants. I bet the cane sugar is very similar in that regard.

 

[twobitbob]

Yes ! I purchased Dolomite lime due to the fact that many use it in their soil recipes. Reading into it later, I decided against using it due to the Calcium/Mag ratio. I sprinkle a little into my soil but use it very sparingly. I use egg shells too, but have read that unless you use vineger they take a long time to break down in the soil.

So, while I got you... Is there any chance you can provide a list of must have ingredients a gardener should have on hand? Epson Salt? Gypsum Calcium Sulfate? EC meter? PH Meter I use PH drops to keep it simple but like everything in this hobby they can be tricky if the water is colored.

Here is what I'm using now---(trying to keep it simple)

Mainly used -fed heavily, 1/2 - full dosege per Dynagrow feedchart

Dyna Grow Foliage Pro-

Used with caution and fed lightly
Dyna Grow MagPro-
Dyna Grow Bloom
Dyna Grow Protekt- Used mainly when I need to raise PH of my feed solution. (not so common, my nutes get the PH to where it should be without Protekt.)

My Future shopping list:

Recharge? (heard good things)
Epsom Salt (Sonething every grower should have on hand?)
Hydroguard- (heard good things- supposedly good with hydroponics/ soil-less.?

I personally mix soil, There is a lot of recipes around 3:3:3 is most common Peat:compost:aeration and ammended, I have gathered bulk amendments over the years, I always have some sort of rock dust, glacial, basalt, recently using montanagrow
(volcanic tuft), azomite, soft rock phosphate or if you have access to some local rock dusts, I use local quarry too, some bust up quartz in my area so I mix some in if I have it and local mineral dirt...if you have it
I like fish bone flour too but I have also used plenty of steamed bone meal if I can get it locally, I try to find as much of the heavy stuff locally if I can
I scavenge the hardware stores, lots of times at the end of spring you can get good deals on bulk amendments
I have a habit of going to my local hardware store after seeing the pallet of peat moss sitting there all wrapped up and ready be put on my trailer
just ask them you want to get rid of that? haha usually they do for what they paid
Pumice is the hardest for me to get in my area. Some use lava rock instead for aeration and rice hulls...
Gypsum is calcium sulfate, epsom salt is cheap and handy to have
Two things I am planning on adding later is Cal-Phos, and Potassium Sulfate, my soil is a little low in those and some of my plants showed it.
I compost horse manure and chicken manure bedding spent brewery grains...
Finally getting some room cleared out in my storage for my worm bins again

Recharge is mainly bacillus strains, with mycorrhizae hydroguard is bacillus megaterium I think...
I use recharge every now and then I added it to compost tea
Check out Rootwise, they have all of the microbes that recharge has plus more and I think the megatherium is in there too
I'd have too look at the label to be sure
Anyway, check out Kiss website, and podcasts lots of info there

Growing Organic | Organic Growing + Sustainable Wellness & Living

Follow along as we work to prove a return back to our roots, to organics in all areas of life, will work to build a happy, healthy, and abundant life.

growingorganic.com

And of course Build A Soil has tons of videos BlOGS lots of explanations

 

[bobross]

Like with anything, once it's established there will be copycats - in fact, Recharge is a copycat that got famous I think. I have no issue with it but I have one more dose and the next product is called TPS Billions. Half the price and it looks like the main difference is that it has a cane-sucar carrier instead of molasses. And if the plants want molasses I can add that cheap too.

And you are right about the eggshells, I do both. I have the WCA (if you want to look up how to make it) that is just an eggshell and vinegar solution with the eggshells toasted to get the inner skins off. If you put the eggshell in a blender it works for both. You can rinse a lot of the skin away since it floats. The fine eggshell toasts in no time with less stink, and if you are just tossing it into the worm bin it's like adding any other mineral.

Thanks, I'll take a look at TPS Billions, that one is new to me. As far as making my own soil goes, I see that many here strongly advise to go that route. I get it, BUT I am scared to death of pests !!! I boil all of my soil (even the Coco) to sterilize and kill any eggs that may be hidden. I know this kills all the good "life" in the soil but I add Great White and Mycos hopefully startiuung life back up.

 

[bobross]

Week 4: After flushing, the lockout seems to be gone, she is taking off !

This is the first plant that I've grown that stinks in Veg, its INSANE ! I had to hookup my carbon filter early, that should do the trick for now.

Previous week:


One week later:

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Thanks, I'll take a look at TPS Billions, that one is new to me. As far as making my own soil goes, I see that many here strongly advise to go that route. I get it, BUT I am scared to death of pests !!! I boil all of my soil (even the Coco) to sterilize and kill any eggs that may be hidden. I know this kills all the good "life" in the soil but I add Great White and Mycos hopefully startiuung life back up.

I've been growing in organic soil for years in my house and have had zero pests. Great White and Mycos really only add mycelium to the soil. You want microbial life in there and even some small beneficial bugs. People who have massive pest issues, more often than not, just don't keep their growing areas clean or they introduce them from being in an outdoor garden before tending to their plants without cleaning up first.

 

[bobross]

I've been growing in organic soil for years in my house and have had zero pests. Great White and Mycos really only add mycelium to the soil. You want microbial life in there and even some small beneficial bugs. People who have massive pest issues, more often than not, just don't keep their growing areas clean or they introduce them from being in an outdoor garden before tending to their plants without cleaning up first.

Thanks, I have a compost bin and will start to make a compost. Its just the fact that fox farm has bugs in the soil ---ANYTHING that comes from the outside makes me very nervous. !

I had ants hanging around a previous crop, couldnt see any aphids but I think the ants were there for a reason. I'm paranoid ! (apparently ant are friends with aphids---they farm them and eat the honeydew?)

Have to say I'm loving Coco so far. It drains well, stays aearated, doesnt compact as bad as soil and you can increase the frequency of feedings. I'm feeding twice a day now and the plant is not drowning--something I havent been able to do in soil.

 

[H.A.F.]

I get it, BUT I am scared to death of pests !!!

You will never maintain a home grow area bug free, but the attempt to stop this from happening can take a lot of your time and money. You need to be specific about "pests" vs "other critters". Pests are unwanted.

Nature does not dig a vacuum and will fill it with something. Good bugs or bad bugs - you will end up with one, the other , or both.

If you look in a worm bin you won't just see worms. You can see these little white mites running around eating any dead worms and composted stuff. I freaked out the first time I realized that these were being transferred regularly to my pots via castings. I got pics and was asking if it was something to worry about etc. I have never seen one even climbing on the trunk of my trees. They hate the light and the open air - they dig my mulch and stay there happy.

I can pull the mulch back on any pot and see a few worms wiggling, and some of those mites just doing their thing. Their presence (and all the junk I can't see) is why I have zero gnats or other pests.

In other scientific terms based on other theories, think about extremophiles that live on volcanic vents in the deep ocean, or in naturally toxic ponds at Yellowstone - Boiling soil may kill everything and it may not - but what does survive will be the strongest mo-fo's and you better hope they're on your side

 

[bobross]

Well I'll tell you the story about two different flies. One flies around and you can clap your hands to kill. (the fungus gnat). I've had them with every grow that I didnt boil the soil. The second fly I've come across looks just like a fungus gnat but they are clever and can dodge my hand clapping, they arent fungus gnats. Under a loupe, you can see that they are slightly different than fungus gnats. Aphid fliers? NOOOOOOOOOO

I wouldnt be so paranoid about bugs if I could see them, but some of the worst crop destroying pests are INCREDIBLY small. Take the root aphid--- they live in the roots and stems right? How the hell can I check for them, rip my plant out of the pot?

I'm still wondering how a sterile grow room, closed and locked how bugs can get in.... It seems they shouldnt, but I'm a newb. I have my fly traps up and fingers crossed I can keep them out.

I am listening to you though, maybe I should drop my caution a bit. Somehow plants live outside so it cant be that bad is it? (Although I dont have predators to eat the bad buds (natural balance) like the great outdoors. I get a bit of hypochondria with my grows though and start thinking I have everything. (thus boiling AND baking my soil to 180 for 20 mins or so)...

Thanks for the help man, I'm learning much.

 

[Rocman91]

You won't regret learning coco... It's superior in alot of ways . Yes there is a big learning curve but once your dialed in you can crank runs out fast and have beautiful results!